Merrellee Moore wrote:

A change of subject:

Just wondering what this discussions group's thoughts are on the following message I wrote in the Christianity-General forum. Once I had written the message, I had it forwarded to myself for reference.

This is an old problem I'm sure all of you have encountered at sometime or another. I don't generally get into arguments with these people, but occasionally step in to support and defend those who are so lovingly and sincerely trying to save the homosexual.

Since we've been discussing saving the lost, I thought this might be of interest.

Ever in Christ,
Merrellee

*****,

I'm sorry, but you can't justify evil by saying that unless you can see where Jesus said exactly what you want to hear, you can still do what God has already called an abomination. Jesus didn't have to address each and every evil of which men are capable.

Jesus Did say to Satan in Matthew 4, "It is Written." In Chapter 5:17-18 He tells us, in His own words,

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

*****, part of that law was God's written instruction to the Hebrews which you can read in Leviticus 18. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the Lord your God. After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the Lord your God.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

For Christians, *****, God's Word as it is written throughout the Bible - all 66 books - IS spoken by Jesus because we believe and seek to obey the Word because, as we have learned in John 1:1, Jesus IS the Word. We don't have to see it written in red. We know Jesus spoke the Word for our profit and instruction, to keep us from evil.

Let me add this also. Those of us who lovingly reach out to warn those who commit these acts of homosexuality would really rather not have to speak of such things at all. If we didn't care about the homosexual or about God's love toward the homosexual, we would blithely say, "Ah well, live and let live." But we know God's love for all and that we are to reach out to save the sinner.

For those who seek to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, we find it very significant that the last epistle before Revelations is the book of Jude where we are reminded of the prophesy of Enoch in verses 14-19 that the Lord comes with ten thousands of His Saints (believers) to

...convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed..murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts...These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the spirit.

*****, we would rather just go on with our lives and not speak of these things. It really would be easier just to shrug and say, "Oh well." But it isn't well. God would have all be saved. So we have to keep trying, even when a person won't be convinced unless he sees the words spoken by Jesus himself.

May you know God's Peace.

Ever in Christ,
Merrellee - The Circuit Rider

Merrellee,

Very good! I am a reformed homosexual myself. I stopped gay activity in the 1980's, primarily due to my fear of AIDS. When I became a Christian, I knew that I could simply not go back to that lifestyle. There can be no doubt that I would have returned to it (AIDS aside) if I did not come to the gospel. Each day is a challenge. I wish there was a magical pill I could take to change my orientation, but alas, this is not an option. Christians do not realize what a glorious gift heterosexuality is. Not all of us have been given this gift.

The emotional pain of a homosexual in Christ is so vast I can never describe it. It is the ultimate feeling of isolation and alienation, because we are expected to walk away from these urges and praise God in the process, while hiding this inner turmoil from the very church to which we belong. The only relief I feel is that God surely knows how vast my struggle is, and He knows that, in spite of it all, I have surrendered this to Him. I have hope that He will bless me in wonderful ways, perhaps in the next life. I think the anti-homosexual rhetoric from some fundamentalist circles is criminal. These people (heterosexual Christians) can never appreciate the sacrifice and silent struggle I, and legions like me, must contend with each day.

I do not understand why I am what I am. All I can understand is that the Bible forbids my orientation, and I must honor the Scriptures in spite of my lack of understanding. I can only trust that God knows what is best for me. Yes, many evangelicals will protest that "we abhor the activity, but not the individual", but this is like rubbing salt in the wound. I simply never invited these inclinations. They came with puberty; unannounced, uninvited, unexpected, and unwelcomed. How many of these same Christians would gladly give up heterosexual sex if the Bible commanded it? Don't these people know, or even care, what is being expected of us?

What can I possibly say? Homosexuality is a lie, a deception. It grants (for some) a moment of contentment that fades immediately. Hence, it is a lifestyle that becomes promiscuous, for more contacts are needed to fill the inner void. With promiscuity comes disease and early death. So the only thing worse than being a homosexual in Christ is being an active homosexual. You end up with a choice that hurts both ways. Not much of a life, huh? The only way out is to give up control of your life, and place control in God's hands. I have come to accept that my orientation is a part of my carnal self, but that I am a new creation in Christ, and I need not go where the old self leads. I know that, should I feed my carnal self, it will never be satiated, not even for a moment. So when it rears its ugly head, I acknowledge it, say hello, and move on. I do this little mental exercise like: "Oh, there you are! I see you're still hanging around, huh? While you're hear, I'll ask the Lord to bless you!"

The simple truth is that it works. I have not had a same sex contact in over a decade! Am I giddy and delighted by this? Of course not! But I do have a family and a precious daughter whom I adore. If I could break the cycle, anyone can. I am in no way exceptional. Not at all. We really have to be very compassionate with homosexuals, and very gentle. Even with the gospel, they will have a bitter road to hoe that most believers will never know or appreciate.

Yours in Christ,
*****

*****

My brother in Christ! Thank you so much for helping me to further understand this problem!

As you may have gathered while visiting my website, I have been led of the Lord to speak of homosexuality strictly from the standpoint of a child of God who sees a problem and seeks to correct it the only way possible, through the Word and in Jesus' name. Believe me, I really, really would rather not have to talk about such a personal matter at all. I would have thought I'd be the LAST person the Holy Spirit would choose to speak of such things. I'm very non-confrontational!

But I know in the few times I've been disputed in this by various homosexuals and from what I've been witnessing in the Christian Forums, the people there are very lovingly trying to convey God's Word on this matter. Usually this is because the subject is brought up by a practicing homosexual who wants to attack Christians as if it was OUR personal idea to tell them this is wrong. I've seen terrible rudeness from both sides in this, but have to wonder why in the world these people would choose to attend and read a forum which is started for the benefit of Christians to come together in fellowship and to exchange information much as we do on this mailing list.

Another problem I've been made aware of in this matter is from fellow Christians who don't seem to grasp the directive of Repentance at all. They have a very easy, socially and politically correct version of Christianity which I almost envy. The problem is, they don't seem to be helping God at all and don't bother Satan a bit! What people fail to realize many times is that we all have a capacity to sin and just like you, we honor God by seeking God's help in overcoming those old sin habits on a day to day basis.

What a blessing it is to know someone like you who IS overcoming and will continue to overcome. You give us all hope and strength and I praise God that He has called you to salvation and to share what you have learned.

That little girl has a fine daddy to look up to and be proud of!

Ever in Christ,
Merrellee

I don't want to cause any arguements, I just want to share something that is on my heart - because I take the Bible and people seriously.

I believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God so I stand by your Biblical convictions 100%

I also have a number of gay friends who I love immensely, they didn't chose to be gay, they just are.

In I Corinthians Paul wrote, that neither murders, nor drunkards, nor theives, nor liars, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders....would enter the Kingdom of God. He then went on to say, "Of such were some of you, but you were washed, you were cleansed, you were sanctified through faith in Jesus Christ.

God does not love the gay person any less than anyone else. I believe the God has a heart full of love and compassion, longing to love the gay person, just as he has for any sinner. And we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, so we have no right to condemn nor judge anyone else. (Although we must speak the truth in love)

Lets stop condeming homosexuals and start loving them, in the way Jesus does. A lot of gay people find Christians prejudiced and incredible unloving - from listening to their stories I can understand why. Its time for us to repent of condemning people and start loving them with integrity with without compromise. We must neither compromise our Biblical convictions nor the expression of the gentleness, faithfulness, compassion and love that comes from God that he longs to express to people (including gay people) through us.

With love
*****

Hello *****,

I'm so pleased that you agree with the Word of God concerning homosexuality. You didn't say whether you sent this message concerning what I've written on my site, but if you have not read what I've written, I invite you to read "Intolerance - The Emperor's New Clothes" Where I wrote the following lines:

We can never persecute them, but we must reject their behavior. We can never accept homosexuality, but we must have compassion and pray for the homosexual.

You might also be interested in "Correspondence with a Young Man" Where I attempt to lovingly and sincerely answer one troubled young man's questions.

I take this opportunity to also share the following scripture:

Ezekiel 3:18-21

(***quoted here for the reader's benefit, starting with Ezekiel 3:17***)

Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

When I say unto the wicked, "Thou shalt surly die"; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked (person) shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Again, when a righteous (person) doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous (person), that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

Thank you for your letter. I am always pleased to receive comments and suggestions regarding what is written, not only on my site, but in God's Word.

Ever in Christ,
Merrellee Moore

Hello,

Yes I was responding to your article, Intolerance -the Emperors new clothes.

Actually, I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions.

I've mentioned that I have gay friends - and that I love them very very much. I have spoken to them about homosexuality and some of them have told me how they had really prayed that God would take their feelings for the same gender away - this really bothers me, as they feel that God has taunted them with feelings they aren't allowed to have. I don't have any answers so I just listen and pray for them in secret and do whatever I can to serve them in the way I think Jesus would have but I wish I could give them more answers.

Also there are a number of organisations that claim to be able to cure people of homosexuality - most of which get a very very very bad press in the general media. I study psychology and they don't seem to be too highly respected amongst standard psychology organisations either. Could you tell me what you think about these organisations? Of course if you don't feel able to give me any comment then I'll understand completely.

Also, I'm at university. I spend most of my time here with non-Christian friends, a number of whom are gay and the vast majority of which are very gay friendly. However, from forming good friendships with these people I have realised just how homophobic Christians are perceived as being. (and sadly, I can't say that this reputation is unreasonable) Have you any advice for me on how to deal with this?

Thankyou so much for being brave enough to take a Biblical stance on homosexuality, please pray for me as I try to love my gay friends without compromise.

With much love in Christ
*****

Hello *****,

Thanks for your prompt reply and request for more information.

I very much understand your problem in trying to help those who are homosexual and also in trying to reconcile your belief in God's Word with the social and psychological problems regarding homosexuality.

Actually, there is no reconciliation between God's Word and the ways of the world when issues such as this come up. What the world can't and won't understand is that they are always going to be heading in the opposite direction. As we have already learned, there is no way to sin and obey God at the same time. This is one reason why Jesus, who is the Word of God (John 1:1), will always be socially and politically incorrect.

The extent of my knowledge concerning homosexuality is what you've already read on my site. However, since writing these messages, I have found some very good information regarding homosexuality and am including the links here.

• From the Christian Answers network with related links regarding this problem.

• From Didaskalos Ministries with in-depth Biblical research on this subject

• From Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

• From Cornerstone Ministries - Answers the question, "Is Homosexuality Genetic?"

• Another Chance Ministries which can help those who are caught up in the homosexual lifestyle.

We can see in Paul's epistles that he was faced with the same problems we face today. He had to tell those at Rome and at Corinth and elsewhere when he saw them hardening their hearts toward God through sin.

You said that your friends have told you that they have prayed to God to take away their ungodly desires, but if they knew anything about the Word, they would learn that God has not only given mankind Free Will, but the responsibility to "purge himself" 2 Timothy 2:21 from "ungodliness" 2 Timothy 2:16. God will help us if we are sincerely honest about helping ourselves as we present our bodies as a "Living Sacrifice, Holy and acceptable to God." Romans 12:1-2. After all, what is the alternative?

Finally, as Paul reminds us in 2 Timothy 2:19:

Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

So we can see that those who want to do what they will but which is exactly in opposition to what God has told us, are headed away from the Kingdom of God. If we love them, we have to at least warn them (Ezekiel 3 again). We don't have to judge or condemn. All we have to do is know God's Word and share it as we witness to those who are headed the wrong direction.

*****, the most important motive here is loving God enough to reach out to the Lost and loving the lost enough to bring them to God. We can't glorify ourselves or some church. We must seek only to bring glory to God no matter how socially incorrect we have to be.

I look forward to hearing from you any time! I always welcome sincere and honest comments and questions.

Ever in Christ,
Merrellee Moore